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God carries an ID Card. Christians should be discerning when we hear those who invoke the term “God” or terms like “higher power,” “Allah,” or “supreme being” in their speeches, services, or prayers. The God of the Bible carries an ID card: In the Old Testament He identified Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Exodus 3:6; 4.5; compare Matthew 22:32).
This designation separated Him from the false gods and pagan myths. In the New Testament, the true God is further revealed to be the "God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:3; Ephesians 1:31; 1 Peter 1:3). Terrorism In Prophecy Jesus made reference to the kind of terrorism that occurred at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in the last days. He said "And when you hear of wars and DISTURBANCES, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately." (Luke 21:9) Look at the word "DISTURBANCES" - Here's what it means in the original Greek language: Greek "Akatastasia" means "instability, state of disorder, disturbance, confusion, tumult, commotion, revolution or anarchy." This is a clear definition of Terrorism, so let's use that word and read the passage again. "And when you hear of wars and TERRORISM, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately." What was Jesus referring to? He was referring to the character of these very days we live in. But notice that Jesus also said in the same passage "do not be terrified." Why? Because no matter what happens and no matter how chaotic the world becomes, God is still in control and believers in Jesus Christ are promised an evacuation in the Rapture- the catching of all true believers up to heaven to be with the Lord before the greatest terror of all- the Great Tribulation- overtakes the planet: "...we who are alive and remain shall be caught up ...in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:17-18) |
Written by 'Guest' on 2006-07-10 07:55:45
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Yes, indeed! And according to the Old Testament, he is called the God of Israel over 200 times! javascript:ac_smilie(' '); | Sorry but this is what I see
Written by 'Guest' on 2006-06-23 21:51:07
There must be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture if we read of all of these individuals in heaven before the brimstone hits the fan, right? Or maybe not!!
JUST QUESTIONS
Revelations 4: 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
If we look at this chapter and verse, one can conclude that this is hinting of a pre-tribulation rapture. Other wise where did these individuals come from if not from this pre-tribulation secret rapture?
So I’m looking threw my bible to make sure nothing is made void, and although I am still learning. Here is what I see. Although in John 11: 11-14, Jesus said;
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus SLEEPETH; but I go, that I may awake him out of SLEEP.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he SLEEP, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of REST in SLEEP.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead .
Note: And in other scriptural references, Deut 31:16, 2 Samuel 7:12, 1Kings 1:21 we see that those who die at this point in time apparently do not go to Heaven but rather they SLEEP until raised on the last day.
But there are exceptions it would seem!
Matthew 17: 1-3
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
And what is also most note worthy are these scriptural references
Exodus 23:14-16
14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:
16 And the feast of harvest, the FIRSTFRUITS of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Note: This is more then Agricultural in nature. But referred to as a rehearsal, or shadow picture of good things to come!
Matthew 27: 51-53
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which SLEPT arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Romans 11:16
16 For if the FIRSTFRUITS be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Note: Could these gold crowns of been also given to those as part of the FIRST FRUITS fulfillment, that will later be given to us all?
Psalms 103
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
Now with the above in our minds. Let’s look again at these points of reference.
Revelations 4: 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and “upon the seats I saw four and twenty ELDERS sitting,” clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Now compare these individuals (souls) with the above (elders) and see the difference in there station, and take note of Genesis 4:10.
Genesis 4:10
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's BLOOD crieth unto me from the ground.
Revelation 6: 9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw “under the altar the SOULS” of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our BLOOD on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, THAT THEY SHOULD REST YET FOR A LITTLE SEASON (Possibly sleep? See John 11:11), until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
IF I’M WRONG THEN HELP ME OUT FOR WE’RE HERE TO LEARN
John 3:
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
| Written by 'Guest' on 2006-06-23 21:48:10
Looking For Truth To This Pre-Tribulation “Gathering” Scenario
In Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. For Yeshua always referred to scripture when pointing out something important to those around him. For the word of God was to unfold and be fulfilled in Yeshua HaMashiach and not to be rewritten but deeply rooted in that which those with understanding could draw validation from. John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. God wants nothing unclear and nothing hidden concerning his purpose for us, so he gives us several points of view to draw from in that we may construct a more complete picture to draw from.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Matthew 24: 23-24
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Possible argument 1: Tribulation consists of wrath that comes straight from God, and it would be inconsistent for him to punish those he has already redeemed!
But as we see, these things are to be expected! If we believe we are more then our bodies.
Matthew 10: 21-22
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
John 4: 23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Matthew 10:38-39
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
John 3:5-6
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Matthew 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Possible argument 2: the church, having accepted Christ, needs no such final opportunity for salvation, so there is no real need for them to be here during the tribulation.
Note: Using this secret pre-tribulation “rapture” scenario, if there are no true believers left, who will bare witness to the truth for those left behind, now needing to prepare for the more verbally described from Yeshua’s own mouth “gathering of his elect.”?
Mark 13: 23-27
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Revelation 12:11-12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
In Exodus We See Rehearsals and Shadow Pictures Of Things To Come
Possible argument 3: In reference to where these elders and saints may have come from prior to the “Tribulation” and so called “left behind” gathering.
Revelation 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Exodus 23:14-16
14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Romans 11:16
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Matthew 27: 51-53
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Possible argument 4: Since Israel and the Church are two separate entities, the tribulation is not intended for the Church.
PLEASE READ THIS!
He is speaking of the Gentiles being joined to the Jewish nation of Israel
Ephesians 2: 12-20
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Romans 11:11-12
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Roman 10:11-13
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (Yeshua HaMashiach) shall be saved.
Isaiah 11: 10-12
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 42: 6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Luke 2: 30-32
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Zechariah 8: 20-23
20 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
A Warning To The Gentiles!
Romans 11: 17-21
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Thank You For Your Patience
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